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Post by KSSunflower on Feb 2, 2018 22:13:22 GMT -6
Awhile back, I read an article about why we fantasize others www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201411/why-we-fantasize-about-other-partnersIt reasons that having a fantasy about someone else doesn’t mean you’ll end up acting on it. There are many who don’t feel comfortable if they (or their spouse) have sexual thoughts or dreams about somebody else. They feel it is a form of infidelity. The article goes through different ways one might fantasize and whether those fantasies might pose a threat to the relationship. Then it gives some possible reasons one might have sexual fantasies about other partners. It warns that it can become a problem if one is preoccupied with the images and can’t enjoy intimacy with their partner. However, it suggests that instead of fighting back the thoughts, one should examine what is causing them. The idea is that, if you explore it, you can gain insight and share what it might represent with your spouse. Another thing that it mentions is how encouraging those with low sexual desire to fantasize has been shown to help them return to normal sexual function. Do you believe that fantasizing can be used in monogamous relationships? If so, in what ways? |
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Post by wantmore on Mar 22, 2018 13:39:48 GMT -6
I absolutely believe fantasy can be good for monogamous relationships. I’ve read several articles that discuss how fantasy is our brains way of healing from forms of trauma in our lives. For example, as a teenager I was very self conscious of my tall, thin frame. I figured girls liked me because I was funny and fun to be around, but that they wanted someone who was built differently. I dated frequently, but usually after a couple of dates I’d stop calling the girls because I thought they wouldn’t want to keep going out with me. Any time a girl showed interest in me I would chalk it up to me just misreading all the cues. Now, I find myself fantasizing about the woman taking the lead with me. Initiating everything. Telling me how much she wants to have me, etc. I think it’s my way of healing from that “trauma” in my teenage years.
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Post by wantmore on Mar 22, 2018 13:42:20 GMT -6
I neglected to say how I though fantasizing was good for relationships. When in check, I think it gives us an outlet to experience things we wouldn’t really do in real life situations. I wouldn’t cheat on my wife in real life, but I have natural curiosity about what sex is like with other women. Fantasy allows me to explore these scenarios without really having to go down that path.
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Post by edshubby on Mar 22, 2018 22:08:55 GMT -6
I think orthodox Christianity would refer back to Christ’s comments on lusting after someone being equivalent to committing adultery in your heart. How can sexual fantasies about people to whom you aren’t married be distinguished from lust? I would think that if it were merely about experiencing certain sexual acts that such fantasizing could be done while imagining your spouse as your sexual partner. So if the fantasy is really about being with someone besides your spouse... The article goes through different ways one might fantasize and whether those fantasies might pose a threat to the relationship. Then it gives some possible reasons one might have sexual fantasies about other partners. It warns that it can become a problem if one is preoccupied with the images and can’t enjoy intimacy with their partner. However, it suggests that instead of fighting back the thoughts, one should examine what is causing them. The idea is that, if you explore it, you can gain insight and share what it might represent with your spouse. There may be an element of truth. I don’t think “fighting back the thoughts” means you can’t examine what is causing them, but I do think that fantasies, dreams particularly, can reveal desires you didn’t know you had, with someone besides your spouse being present because you can’t imagine your spouse satisfying that desire — but that doesn’t excuse infidelity and sometimes dreams are meaningless, random firings of neurons. Another thing that it mentions is how encouraging those with low sexual desire to fantasize has been shown to help them return to normal sexual function. Do you believe that fantasizing can be used in monogamous relationships? If so, in what ways? Fantasizing about your spouse — generally acceptable, but not always. Fantasizing about non-spouses — only acceptable to the extent that it’s not intentional, conscious, or eagerly anticipated. I think fantasy can be used to identify sexual desires which, when communicated to your spouse, can help guide them in how to satisfy you sexually. It can also help share sexual desire when you’re separated physically. |
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Post by mrshorty on Mar 23, 2018 10:42:31 GMT -6
My current thoughts on the appropriateness of fantasies are like this. Starting with an article that equated the word translated as lust with the word translated as covet (so lust=covet). Covet is usually associated with wealth and such, which led me to ponder on such fantasies and daydreams, which quickly led me to Tevye's fantasies expressed in "If I Were a Rich Man" (from the Broadway musical "Fiddler on the Roof", if you are young enough to be unfamiliar with the play). I ask myself if Tevye's fantasies are a form of sinfully coveting, or if they are harmless daydreams. When I daydream about retiring early to Hawaii or what I would do if I won the lottery or something, is this sin or not. If lust and covet are nearly synonyms, and daydreaming about wealth is not inherently sinful, then is it inherently sinful to daydream about sex? I have not answered this question for myself, yet. But I find it an intriguing way to think about it.
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Post by edshubby on Mar 23, 2018 15:17:31 GMT -6
My current thoughts on the appropriateness of fantasies are like this. Starting with an article that equated the word translated as lust with the word translated as covet (so lust=covet). Covet is usually associated with wealth and such, which led me to ponder on such fantasies and daydreams, which quickly led me to Tevye's fantasies expressed in "If I Were a Rich Man" (from the Broadway musical "Fiddler on the Roof", if you are young enough to be unfamiliar with the play). I ask myself if Tevye's fantasies are a form of sinfully coveting, or if they are harmless daydreams. When I daydream about retiring early to Hawaii or what I would do if I won the lottery or something, is this sin or not. If lust and covet are nearly synonyms, and daydreaming about wealth is not inherently sinful, then is it inherently sinful to daydream about sex? I have not answered this question for myself, yet. But I find it an intriguing way to think about it. I feel like I’ve had this conversation before. There are aspirational fantasies about non-specific things or ideas that are achievable through moral means, and there are fantasies about things that can only be obtained through immoral means. In my opinion, Tevye’s song was about wealth generally. He wasn’t singing about if he had Lazar Wolf’s house, or Lazar Wolf’s wealth. There was no antagonism or enmity toward another person. I would say that it wasn’t even necessarily jealousy, just a desire for a better life, without any malice toward another person. It was something that Tevye could theoretically obtain for himself without sinning, even if his status as a poor Jewish tailor in a small village being persecuted by Russians made that highly unlikely. On the other hand, if Tevye is singing about having sex with another man’s wife, well, first off, what would that person think of it? Honestly, if I looked like Brad Pitt, or whatever guy women are fantasizing about today, it would make me a bit uncomfortable knowing that women are fantasizing about me and I’d want them to knock it off. Second, how would Tevye go about realizing his fantasy? Commit adultery? Commit murder? Abandon his wife and break up another marriage? Just hope that some accident befalls the woman’s husband so he can marry the her? In order to fulfill this fantasy, sin is involved. I would argue that this sort of fantasy is therefore also tainted and sinful. I don’t believe it’s completely harmless just because you’re “never going to act on it.” Thoughts sow actions. This isn’t to say that all sexual thought outside of marriage is sinful. For example, when I was a teen and YSA, it was kind of inevitable that I had raging boners from time to time that I had no control over. Sometimes I couldn’t help but think about the good feelings, due to no fault of my own, coming from my engorged penis trapped in the cramped quarters of my pants. I would sometimes think about sex with my future wife (conceptually, without a specific person in mind) and what it would feel like to have my penis inside her (which wasn’t that hard to imagine with my penis feeling pretty amazing already). I think these experiences, rather than being sinful fantasy, were opportunities for pondering marital sex and the related emotions, planning for the future, and receiving instruction from the Spirit on sex’s place in a marriage, how it should be used, and what my motivations should be. If the fantasy turns toward including people outside of the marriage, or if you’re a single person fantasizing about fornication or sex outside the context of marriage, then again it becomes about wanting to experience immoral acts. I know that may seem like a weird line to draw, where you could be thinking about two things that are identical with the only difference being whether you’d have to sin to realize it, but I think it works. |
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Post by NeverGiveUp on May 19, 2018 14:56:01 GMT -6
I feel like I’ve had this conversation before. There are aspirational fantasies about non-specific things or ideas that are achievable through moral means, and there are fantasies about things that can only be obtained through immoral means. In my opinion, Tevye’s song was about wealth generally. He wasn’t singing about if he had Lazar Wolf’s house, or Lazar Wolf’s wealth. There was no antagonism or enmity toward another person. I would say that it wasn’t even necessarily jealousy, just a desire for a better life, without any malice toward another person. It was something that Tevye could theoretically obtain for himself without sinning, even if his status as a poor Jewish tailor in a small village being persecuted by Russians made that highly unlikely. On the other hand, if Tevye is singing about having sex with another man’s wife, well, first off, what would that person think of it? Honestly, if I looked like Brad Pitt, or whatever guy women are fantasizing about today, it would make me a bit uncomfortable knowing that women are fantasizing about me and I’d want them to knock it off. Second, how would Tevye go about realizing his fantasy? Commit adultery? Commit murder? Abandon his wife and break up another marriage? Just hope that some accident befalls the woman’s husband so he can marry the her? In order to fulfill this fantasy, sin is involved. I would argue that this sort of fantasy is therefore also tainted and sinful. I don’t believe it’s completely harmless just because you’re “never going to act on it.” Thoughts sow actions. This isn’t to say that all sexual thought outside of marriage is sinful. For example, when I was a teen and YSA, it was kind of inevitable that I had raging boners from time to time that I had no control over. Sometimes I couldn’t help but think about the good feelings, due to no fault of my own, coming from my engorged penis trapped in the cramped quarters of my pants. I would sometimes think about sex with my future wife (conceptually, without a specific person in mind) and what it would feel like to have my penis inside her (which wasn’t that hard to imagine with my penis feeling pretty amazing already). I think these experiences, rather than being sinful fantasy, were opportunities for pondering marital sex and the related emotions, planning for the future, and receiving instruction from the Spirit on sex’s place in a marriage, how it should be used, and what my motivations should be. If the fantasy turns toward including people outside of the marriage, or if you’re a single person fantasizing about fornication or sex outside the context of marriage, then again it becomes about wanting to experience immoral acts. I know that may seem like a weird line to draw, where you could be thinking about two things that are identical with the only difference being whether you’d have to sin to realize it, but I think it works. Love what you said here.
it's good to have a reality check now and again. |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2019 14:09:01 GMT -6
When I fantasize about my wife, while fun, I find that eventually it's hard to get excited about sex with her. And it gets harder to fantasize about her. If I add other women to the rotation if you will, it's easier for me to find her attractive and fantasize about her and still get excited.
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Post by anotherrandomuser7 on Jan 15, 2020 20:27:48 GMT -6
I think orthodox Christianity would refer back to Christ’s comments on lusting after someone being equivalent to committing adultery in your heart. How can sexual fantasies about people to whom you aren’t married be distinguished from lust? I would think that if it were merely about experiencing certain sexual acts that such fantasizing could be done while imagining your spouse as your sexual partner. So if the fantasy is really about being with someone besides your spouse... The article goes through different ways one might fantasize and whether those fantasies might pose a threat to the relationship. Then it gives some possible reasons one might have sexual fantasies about other partners. It warns that it can become a problem if one is preoccupied with the images and can’t enjoy intimacy with their partner. However, it suggests that instead of fighting back the thoughts, one should examine what is causing them. The idea is that, if you explore it, you can gain insight and share what it might represent with your spouse. There may be an element of truth. I don’t think “fighting back the thoughts” means you can’t examine what is causing them, but I do think that fantasies, dreams particularly, can reveal desires you didn’t know you had, with someone besides your spouse being present because you can’t imagine your spouse satisfying that desire — but that doesn’t excuse infidelity and sometimes dreams are meaningless, random firings of neurons. Another thing that it mentions is how encouraging those with low sexual desire to fantasize has been shown to help them return to normal sexual function. Do you believe that fantasizing can be used in monogamous relationships? If so, in what ways? Fantasizing about your spouse — generally acceptable, but not always. Fantasizing about non-spouses — only acceptable to the extent that it’s not intentional, conscious, or eagerly anticipated. I think fantasy can be used to identify sexual desires which, when communicated to your spouse, can help guide them in how to satisfy you sexually. It can also help share sexual desire when you’re separated physically. FWIW I have read some interesting commentary about how what is translated as lust in that scripture really is more akin to coveting. I.e That Christ was just restating what he had already said about coveting in the context of marriage. (I suppose the part about your neighbor's a$$ relates somehow?). What does it mean to covet another person sexually? In any event, it personally makes me uncomfortable to fantasize about someone (even a nameless unknown person) who is not my spouse. |
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